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Good evening. The question of flying saucers or no flying saucers has been with us since

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a man named Dahl claimed on June 21, 1947 to have seen six large airborne discs. Sometime

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after that experienced airmen reported unidentified flying objects. In 1947 to 1962, 3,369 UFO unidentified

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flying objects have been reported to the United States Air Force. Controversy surrounds this

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subject. Many supersonic jets as well as balloons are reported as UFOs under adverse weather and

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sighting conditions. Man-made satellites in orbit have confused many sky watchers. Highly

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technical electronic systems track everything that moves across our skies without positive

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identification yet as a flying saucer as such. Jet reports the flying saucers persist. We will

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try to resolve this question of flying saucers with the evidence at hand. Our distinguished

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panel is made up of George Adamski, an expert on flying saucers from VISTA California. Dr.

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Norman L. Trott, president at Wesley Theological Seminary. Dr. Mark Harrison, chairman of the

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physics department at American University. Dr. B. L. Clark, astronomer at the U.S. Naval Observatory.

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We will begin our discussion in just a moment. This is Raymond Burr speaking for the 1964

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Freedom's Roll Call. Now there's a word for you, freedom. What does it conjure up in your mind?

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The revolution, the Constitution, the Fourth of July, two world wars? Perhaps when you think of

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freedom you think of working where you please, traveling where you want, worshipping as you

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like, the American way. Or maybe your mind leaps to the hundreds of millions living under

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the chains of communism, people who have lost their freedom. Or maybe you just never think

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of freedom at all. May I remind you that freedom is a precious thing, but it must be protected

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and cherished, lest it be lost or destroyed. I invite you to join with me in learning what

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we can do for freedom. Ask today for a copy of Freedom's Handbook, right to Freedom's

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Foundation, Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.

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Well gentlemen, in our opening film sequence we have seen what's proposed to be a flying

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saucer. This film was taken by Mr. Adam Ski who makes claims of seeing flying saucers on

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a number of occasions. I think it would be best to start off with him and ask him how

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in the face of overwhelming evidence against flying saucers, do you still claim, sir, that

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there is such a thing as flying saucers, the film notwithstanding?

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Well, having a personal experience at one time, I didn't believe me there because I brought

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up as an amateur astronomer and what we've been taught and so forth seemed to be impossible.

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But after years of experience and so forth and coming close contact with them, I can't

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help but believe just like in the early days after all there were seven planets known and

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when the eight one was coming in at fourth finally and the ninth one there was a lot of

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discretion to do on that, that they didn't exist.

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Oh, Dr. Clark, there's an astronomer. Can you buy this line of ideas?

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Well, first of all, I'd like to ask Mr. Dempsey if he's familiar with Edward Rupel's views

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on this subject. He was named...

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Rupel? Yes, I have. I got a tape recording. He came up to see me and I got a tape recording

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home of his own statements there.

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Right. Well, in his recent book on unidentified flying saucers,

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he states that he does not believe in flying saucers.

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Well, naturally in the position he has placed, he has to state that way but personally talking

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to him very firmly, you know, he passed away in that long ago and personally, they all admit

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more or less. I know a lot of them that have come to me and told me and supported me, yet I did not

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use their name in my defense because, well, they would just get in trouble.

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Many of the photographs that have been published and shown in the newspapers and so on could very

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well have been pictures of astronomical phenomena which I'm sure you're familiar with.

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One is the super meteor or bulloid. Oh, yeah.

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And I agree with you. When there is something genuine happens and it's been that way for centuries,

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there's a bunch of opportunities to bring up and bring up a lot of things that confuse the

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issue and causes the knowledge to be thrown back, drotted, and come forward. I realize that and I'm

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aware of it. Mr. Adamski, you claim to have seen flying saucers on a number of occasions. Why do

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you think you have seen flying saucers so frequently and the rest of us have never seen

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a flying saucer? Well, you can't stay in the building and see them. You've got to watch them.

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When you watch the sky like we have watched at the beginning every night and every night,

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you're bound to be seeing some of the word, the average person, most of the cases doesn't do that.

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And I... When you just start for us through what these look like? Well,

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scouts, what they call scouts, are carried by the mothership, the long one that you just saw there

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on the screen. Well, they're round one and they only travel from the mothership to it and go back

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into it. And the motherships like our airplane carriers are the ones that carry them between

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the planets. Well, these here, small ones like a called flying saucer, are... You may say we'll

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accommodate about six people the most, some of them don't accommodate that much. While the motherships,

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cigar shaped type, they carry these and accommodate a crew of at least 50 to a couple of hundred.

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Where would they come from? Well, they come from Mars and Venus and one other planet

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to know now and that would be Saturn, although there are some reporters that are becoming from

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Jupiter as well. You say known. Yeah. Because when I made a trip around the world in 59,

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many reports from different ones, very reliable saucer, even in England from the

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Defense Department, when I had luncheon with them. Mark, how about this?

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I was wondering what this position was on the habitability of these planets and

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conceivable that they could sustain life. There have been many ways to interpret the data which

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we have from Mars and Venus regarding the atmospheric composition of these planets. And

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many astronomers argue that there can be life and many argue that there can't be life on Mars and

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Venus. However, on most of the other planets in our solar system, I would say 99.99% of

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astronomers are definite in their views that life could not possibly exist on these planets

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as we know it here on Earth today. For example, on Jupiter and Saturn, which you just mentioned,

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the atmospheric composition of these planets is primarily composed of methane and ammonia.

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Nothing ammonia is not too good to breathe. Yeah. And I'd like to get back to one point

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which you made earlier though, in which you mentioned that you observed these,

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because you watch for them quite frequently. We have a professional program you might say called

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Project Moonwatch, which Dr. Alan Heineck had it. And according to Dr. Heineck,

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all of the audits which his people looked for, and all the hours that were spent making the

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observations, no one ever reported it unidentified. Well, I again have information on that also from

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the Moonwatch where they report it, but there's never a report that the public this thing is quite

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pleading when you get a book that instructs you how to do it if you're a Moonwatcher or

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watcher of any kind. They tell you definitely to be careful and observe that and report it as

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best you can, try to get the size, speed and all of that. Dr. Trott, as a Veload, what is your view

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of the possibility of a being coming from outer space to this Earth on a flying saucer type object?

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Well, I don't think there'd be any problem at this point. I don't believe that

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from a theological point of view, even from a scriptural point of view, that you can rule out

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the possibility of human beings. Somewhere else in the universe, indeed, I think it's quite probable.

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So that this doesn't give me any difficulty. And there are cues and scriptures that might

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shore up your point of view. In Ezekiel, for example, if you can pick up the spiritual, which

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picks up the idea in Ezekiel, Ezekiel saw a wheel way up in the middle of the sky.

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Whether this was a dream or whether it was a reality is something we really don't know.

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There isn't any problem at this point of view. I think our problem is, well, the problem of evidence

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really can you pinpoint this and can we conceive of beings on other planets more advanced than

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the beings on our own making this kind of flight this time? And I have just to hear what

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the historian says and the physicist says. We have an interesting subject to follow you up on.

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Do we have an interesting subject that just came to me before I went on the strip? There's the article

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here in German and it was copied from an Italian and it is the Vatican official paper, the observatory

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of Mano published this and it says in there, the Vatican is already training space missionaries.

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And they're quite an interesting article, what they do, what they suspect, so they already informed

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or no more about it that the youngster is already the beam missionaries to go on another planet

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in order to transmit that type of beam to the people on other worlds.

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Mr. Adam, I'm hoping you're faith that I understand you to say that something about

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six passengers are provisions for passengers on the scout ship.

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On the scout ship, yeah, from from two to six. How'd you get that information?

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Well, the one I made a contact with the first time out in the desert and decide that Blight,

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which is in California yet, they were two men and I didn't get to see the other one,

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but the one that I talked to at that time on the ground, well, I've seen the other one only through

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You talked to one?

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Yeah, through reflection there in the ship, but there were two in that one.

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How did you talk to one? Well, I didn't talk to him.

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Like we talked here because of the pretty others. I did talk to him that way and

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I seemed that he didn't answer me, although he seemed to understand me.

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So I started gestures and so forth. And of course, we all know that

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thought that precious could be a post upon another person and so forth that they're alerted.

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And I tried to do that because I studied that angle too and seemed like he understood that I

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anyhow got him to understand that I want to know where he was from.

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And so by gestures, I pointed through the sun and then I made my first orbit and I says mercury

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and the second orbit, Venus and third orbit, third. And pointed to that. I did that twice.

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He finally did the same thing and stopped at the second orbit, though, to give me the answer

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Venus. And I said Venus and he nodded his head.

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Dr. Erfman?

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Well, I remember Mr. Adamski telling about this in his book, which he wrote with Desmond Leslie.

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There were several things that surprised me there. You indicated that these people look very much

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like people who live on the earth. That's right. They do look like it. Any one of us could be one

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of them. On the other hand, I don't see why a creator would have another geometric pattern for

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human beings instead of following the normal pattern as we know ourselves. We may be different

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minds and different maybe sizes and all of that. But I think that the creator would follow the

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pattern straight through. Well, now this surprises me a great deal. I remember

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reading Dick Tracy and Diets Smith, Hey, They Visit to the Moon. The thing that rather intrigued me

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was the idea that the creator of the Dick Tracy comic strip chose to draw these people

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very much like people on earth.

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What is this picture?

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Yes, for example.

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This is a picture from Mr. Adamski's book. He's showing the face man that Mr. Adamski says he saw.

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And there was an artist with you at the time.

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Yes, and I'd sketch that picture. Well, now let me tell you what I feel is surprising about the fact

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that they would be similar in shape and size to human beings as we know them.

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I'll tell you my thoughts about Dick Tracy first, if that's relevant.

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The moon has a very low gravitational field. And when you examine the sort of piece of why

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is it where for that people are the size they are. It turns out there's very good reasons why

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they're the size that they are that they function well at this particular size and not some other

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size. For example, if we were 10 times the size that we are, it would be rather difficult to get

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a bone structure that would support us. Just the sheer weight of the plane. We have to have a

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different way of forming bone structure out of the mineral, wheat and so forth because it wouldn't

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have the strength to support us. So that the size that we are is well suited to our particular

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size of the earth and the gravity and the associated gravitational pull. Now these planets

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differ widely in size and gravity. Perhaps Dr. Clark could...

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Well, I would like to comment on that too. Let's go back to our structure of the present day.

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I'm 73 years old. I've gone through 73 years of life here. And I have seen in my time when I was a

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kid starting out in labor, I've seen in my time men here on earth, very heavy structure because

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they had to do everything by hand, big and ditches, pursuers and all of that. And since we have

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machines, notice our present generation is still the same design, same structure, but

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they're much lighter in structure and bone and everything else in nature seems to take care of that.

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Well, I think they're relatively the same.

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Because they're much too elliptical.

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I went to the trial last week and I saw some very big fellows going there.

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Well, Dr. Clark, could I address a question to you? Could you quote some figures on the

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relative gravitational forces on other planets?

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Well, for example, the moon, that's about 1-6 out of the earth as far as the gravitational

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forces go.

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It'd be a wonderful place to play a baseball game, wouldn't it?

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I'd do it at home or at home every time.

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I don't have the exact figures, but I think Jupiter is about 30 times the gravitational

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attraction of the earth.

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And that would seem to call for smaller people, wouldn't it?

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Well, it depends. I don't know if you need someone smaller or larger to support this

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heavy force, which would be pulling you down towards the center of gravity on the planet.

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You may need someone with something that was larger.

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No, I would think smaller because consider the amp, he can fall off the table when I've heard himself.

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Right.

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In other words, you might think that the person would be spread out in this coordinate more than that.

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If he falls, I think what a bone-crushing experience that would be was 30 times the

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gravitational force.

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Well, it doesn't have to be flying saucers instead of flying cops.

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Where do we get the answer on the gravity as being exact to begin with from our instruments?

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Instruments still need improvement.

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Let me remind you of something here just a little while back, which we sent up the second satellite

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up there and supposed to register and bring that message back of outer space and also register

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what's on earth.

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Combination in order to get some kind of a measuring stick there by which we could go

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and mind God, that the register no oxygen on earth.

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Dr. Harrison, let's talk about the spacecraft that we have seen on this film.

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We have heard of saucers and the cigar type objects that we saw at the beginning of the program.

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What appeared to be the movement of a fly in a rush in all directions at once.

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Is it physicist or just, what do you think of this?

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Well, I would like to tell you the following story.

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On Labor Day weekend, I had my boat down to Smith Island, which as you know it in the lower part of

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Chesapeake Bay.

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And I was running across to Solomon's Island on a Sunday morning.

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And I saw a unidentified object in the sky and started to call it to a friend of mine

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who was sailing with me.

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And I looked a few minutes later and was gone before I had a chance to call it to his attention.

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About an hour went by and I saw it again.

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And once again, I tried to call it to his attention, but he was busy doing other things.

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The third time I succeeded in calling it to his attention, so he saw it also.

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Now, at the time I didn't give a great deal of thought to it.

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I thought, well, it's something and that's the end of it.

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Something I don't know what it is, but I didn't jump any hasty conclusion.

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It was just something that I didn't know what it was.

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Later on, we got over to Solomon's Island.

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And then I had some second thoughts about it.

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My first thought was that I noticed a balloon salesman.

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And one of them was already some kid had turned loose and it took off.

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This, so I said, well, there's a possibility.

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The other possibility, I suddenly realized that the stuff at Naval Air Base was very nearby.

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And I don't know what they worked with, but certainly they must use some targets of some kind.

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Now, how is my observations different in kind than yours?

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My being sort of a natural skeptic, I started looking around for plausible reasons.

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The notion of flying saucers never occurred to me until I saw this book of yours.

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You are right.

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Prior to our big radar system that we have today, at the beginning from 46 on,

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you noticed they didn't have it in me and there were more sightings are also seen.

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But today we have a lot of things to observe them.

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And plus then we've got 500 pieces or more debris flying around in space that we have put up there

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since we started dealing with space.

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And any deal, any one of those could be reported as a flying saucer.

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But this also could be confirmed because the Air Force follows these objects

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right along in order to know where they are at the given time.

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And reporters, they check on it and know whether it's flying saucer or is it debris?

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Mr. Adamsky, the Air Force has this.

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To date, no unidentified flying object has given any indication of threat to the national security.

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There has been no evidence submitted or to or discovered by the Air Force that unidentified

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sightings represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of our present

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day scientific knowledge.

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And finally, there has been nothing in the way of evidence or other data

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to indicate that these unidentified sightings were extraterrestrial vehicles

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under intelligent control.

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The Air Force.

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Well, here's the statement, the dishes statement in January of the nine, 1964,

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given that Winston Salem and the church clips so far as the Air Force, why have Mr. Benson,

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who is very, he was very closely connected to the branches of the government,

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he's better than he cracked up in the plane.

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And also, did you say what branch?

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Huh?

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Did you tell the footwell?

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He's the one that also established this institution down in Winston,

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so what they call, can't think of it, a little educational institution.

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I know it very well.

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And I just right now can't think of it.

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He is founder of that.

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But he was closely connected.

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He was in Washington most of the time.

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And it says the Air Force, they are concerned.

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They are not always, they are not foreign nation or extraterrestrial or ministered the United States.

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And down here, they go on to the state here.

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It is reasonable that the USA, of course, and the US government will not go on an official record

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of non-identifying the conflict, definitely extraterrestrial or controlled by intelligent

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beings or not hostile.

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But it, against whom we have no defense, if they should choose hostility,

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an announcement of this would create a message here, perhaps far greater,

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than the single radio broadcast source that was 25 years ago.

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And then they go on a 25% of the Air Force and 1000 to 1000

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sources reports from the military pilots and airline pilots, you know, staff were said,

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but not even these continue correct.

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I'm not even even.

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Excuse me, can I interrupt you for a minute here?

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You mentioned just about two or three minutes ago that there were many more radar

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and names by which we can examine or search for these UFOs.

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Yeah.

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You agree to that?

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Yeah.

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All right.

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And how do you count, since there are more receptors or objects to receive the information

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for the fact that there have been fewer and fewer sightings reported since 1950?

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Because of that, because they stay on beyond the radar screen and are commander.

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I mean, you know, and then they don't come and just run like they did before,

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where 500 stood in over O'Parrington in 1952.

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They stay all day long.

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But I think our surveillance systems are probably

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more superior to what they were in 1950.

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And it is as far as our military is concerned, if there was the release, what they catch

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today, which they could and someday they will, I think we'd all be pretty much surprised.

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And but this is the point that they want to bring here.

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Acquired information and size, speed, altitude, directions have not been even

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condemned by this.

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So now the Air Force is switching from a shotgun approach, see up to this time shotgun approach,

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collecting mass of reports to attempt to get the correct measurements.

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So scientists will have something to work with the General Secretary.

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Do you think the Air Force is taking position now that there are flying saucers?

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Definitely.

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Dr. Clark, what do you think of this?

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Well, I don't know about this is not my field.

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I wanted to ask a question that takes off in another tech.

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Here, the astonishing thing to me above everything else is the fact that you have

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seen flying saucers at hand and have talked to the inhabitants of them.

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Has this occurred with any frequency in recent years that you know of other seen

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experience contact?

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Yes, I just have seen in this country about four or five other people.

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There's many claims of that.

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They're not all of the parts.

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And then throughout the world is about that many too.

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In fact, the last time I was in Europe, which was a little over a year ago,

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I talked to John Cook too and I've learned quite a bit what the Vatican knew,

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because he even gave me a little medal.

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And we're going to have it now because he passed away since then.

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Dr. Clark, I'd like to come to you for this question about the

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airports and apparently very revised position on flying saucers.

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What would your reaction be to this?

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Well, I don't know what the latest information is.

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All I have available is what Mr. Rupel had in his book.

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And this was brought up real quickly.

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But notice as far as Captain Rupel is concerned, you know, that's

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count mastery questions there.

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What burned that grass underneath there?

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The grass all right and the roots are all burned down and there are electrical chips.

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Any questions after I'd left them from the scout master?

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Thank you very much.

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Mr. Clarkson, I didn't do justice to your earlier question regarding the film.

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I did have some questions.

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I was trying to work my way around those.

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Please do now, sir.

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Can I have a couple of moments?

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Mr. Ramsky, could you estimate how fast you think this object was traveling that

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we're going to see?

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This object that we saw?

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Mm-hmm.

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I would say at least 15,000 miles per hour.

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I would say according to the way it's moving.

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Although it made me much faster.

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Well, within our Earth's atmosphere, you think that's right.

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It goes over within an Earth's atmosphere, I would say, at the height and a

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distant basis is to be judged not correctly, because it would have to measure it exactly.

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But I would say that it probably was at 5,000 to 10,000 feet.

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Well, here's something that bothers me.

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To the best of our knowledge today, you can't move an object at supersonic speed.

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This is supersonic speed we're talking about through the atmosphere without getting a

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sonic boom.

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00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,640
Now, how do you calculate that?

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00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,040
It's hard to tell whether this object produced a sonic boom or it didn't, because when I saw

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it was already moving, it entered our atmosphere, so the sonic boom would have been gone.

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And then that territory, there's got...

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No, the sonic boom stays with an object as it moves.

335
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No, no, no, no.

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It doesn't stay because I've seen it there on myself, our own jets break my sonic...

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In that territory, there's camp metal, though.

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Almost every day, you got it.

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They break the sonic boom and they go on and you watch them and they disappear, no more sound.

340
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,960
So the sonic boom is when the particular shock wave traveling out from the outside...

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I know how to fly where you happen to be standing.

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Yeah.

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00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:29,240
Well...

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Gentlemen, I'm sure I must interrupt.

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Time has run out.

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I don't think we'll resolve the question of whether there's such a thing as flying sources

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or not.

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We'll have to leave that up to the audience.

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We'll be back in just a moment.

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We would like to thank our guests for being with us tonight for this most interesting discussion.

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Our thanks to George Adamski, expert on flying saucers from Vista, California.

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Dr. Norman L. Trott, president of Wesley Theological Seminary.

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Dr. Mark Harrison, chairman of the physics department at American University.

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Dr. B.L. Clark, astronomer at the U.S. Naval Observatory.

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We hope you will be with us again when Community Dialogue discusses another topic of interest

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to Washington area.

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This is Harry Clarkson.

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Good night.